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I had such a pleasant, political/religious conversation a few days ago.

I know, right? The very two topics that should never be discussed at Thanksgiving, or any social gathering, but there we were, engaging in a kindly and respectful tone.

He’s an old friend. Someone I would describe as thoughtful and would give you the shirt off his back. I don’t know how he might describe me, but I hope it’s likewise, although any shirt I might give you is gonna be stinky after barn chores— just sayin.’

I haven’t told him that he would be featured in my column, so I’ll just call him Steve. Because that’s his name. Anyway, Steve is an ardent believer that there should not be a separation of church and state. “This country was founded upon Judeo-Christian values,” he began. “It’s what the founding fathers wanted.”

I began typing into my phone like mad to ChatGPT, whose readout would be more succinct and accurate than my vague, college memories.

“Sooo,” I drawled, reading the summation, “while many of America’s founding fathers were influenced by Judeo-Christian values, the nation was not founded upon these religions, in the sense of establishing a theocracy, or making Christianity the state religion. The founding fathers, while often influenced by their own Christian beliefs, were also influenced by enlightenment ideals, and sought to create a government that was tolerant of diverse religious views and separate from religious institutions.”

“But the founding fathers were mostly Christian,” he maintained. “And the Declaration of Independence says that the rights of people come from the Creator. I just think those traditional values, or the lack of, are behind so many of the problems we face today.”

“I hear your point,” I nodded. “Does the Declaration of Independence say which creator?” 

It was Steve’s turn to type like mad, and he smiled genuinely as he did so. Pushing his glasses up the bridge of his nose, he began to read aloud.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights…” he frowned. “Well, shoot.”

“I guess ‘their creator’ could be anyone?” I asked.

“I would still disagree, mostly because our founding fathers were actually Christian.”

After a few moments, I remembered one of those tidbits of trivia that had stuck somewhere in the back of my brain, next to the sound a car engine makes when it throws a rod, and in front of the word Sfoglia, which is Italian for puffed pastry.

“For the sake of our friendly discussion,” I began—

“Very friendly,” Steve concurred—

“Let’s say I agree with you. That America should be governed by Christian principles.”

“OK.”

“Which Christian?”

Steve frowned. “I don’t follow. There’s only one Christian.”

I nearly needed a backhoe to pull free the tidbit. “I only just remembered this, but believe it or not, there are like 45,000 different denominations of Christianity in the world.”

Steve was ready for me. “But we’re not talking about the whole world, just America.”

I had to type again. “In America, there’s 200 denominations of Christianity. Mostly because congregants got into arguments and left one church and started another.” I glanced up at him and rattled off my findings. “So, which denomination would get the gig of governing America? Lutheran? Baptist? Jehovah Witness? Episcopal?”

“Well, there would have to be a consensus among lawmakers.”

“How would that work?” I pressed. “Because we’ve had Mormons and Southern Baptists and Catholics in office…I mean, there’s even a Quaker currently serving. And for all I know there could be somebody in the House who attends snake church and Steve, while I’m a ‘live and let live’ kinda chick, I can’t get behind somebody who governs by snake church.”

“I think you’ll find it’s called Pentecostal.”

“You’re right,” I admitted, but cracked a smile. “But not all Pentecostal churches use snakes, so there’s another subset.”

In the end, we agreed that, regardless of beliefs, politicians should be bound together by serving the common good and following the Golden Rule, which is essentially found in all religions and beliefs.

And we also agreed that whoever did so would probably never get re-elected…